Keith Carlock clip

[got_a_matchgrip]

Perhaps "bashing" is a stronger word than necessary. But my aggreement was with the overall "tone" of the sentiment, all except that word.
It wasn't really an insult at all, as it was summarized by the remark that he plays WELL despite these indy personal observations & opinions.
I LIKE KC. Don't mind him one bit. I like VC even more. I'm entitled to that right of opinion. When you look at a guy like Vince you're looking at some good execution of technique, visually, which of course some may be entitled to assuredly disagree; won't change my mind about him one iota tho. By saying i like VC more is in no way slamming your boy. It's just pointing out mine. [img]wink.gif[/img]

Just a thought. Once again, it's all just personal opinion "eye of the beholder" stuff anyway. NO BIG DEAL.

OK, NOW let's talk about Virgil...& Tain. [*Ducks & runs behind Weckl who's behind Vinnie*]... [img]wink.gif[/img] Jazz isn't dead [it just smells funny]. J/K
I jest somewhat exceedingly.

What were we doing here again? Oh...

Peace in the Valley... [img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 27, 2005 07:06 AM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>

[got_a_matchgrip]

Other cats whom i also think are absolutely AMAZING players, but who "hurt" me to watch, are Covington, Blade...ASanchez has a strange grip to me too...looks like he'd run the risk of cramping up if he's not careful [thumb itself, also area btwn thumb & index]...[but obviously that's just "the way it looks"]... [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Like them or not, the "technq monsters" as some like to call them - Lang, Virg, Mang, also VC, Weck, Novak, Chambers, on & on - do another service by showing what really efficient technq looks like. I realize differences occur in indy physiology & other factor issues [as V stated earlier], but essentiaslly they all appear to have "good form." JMHO

But in the end, it's what you hear that counts really. But yes, as drumrs who want to continue to strive for excellence, these things are constantly re-examined fr T2T... [img]cool.gif[/img]

[cjbdrm]

Keith doesn't have strong technical skills? He played snare in the UNT drumline, the best in the country. What do you mean by technique? Just curious, I'm not looking for an argument...

I can see someone saying they don't like his particular technique(exaggerated arm motion, etc.), but I would say that someone without strong technical skills wouldn't be able to pull off the stuff he's playing. I've seen him up close and personal many times. His time is impeccable. He can play very soft to very loud with equal intensity...his coordination is equally impressive. I'm not just judging him on this clip, by the way.

Technique is not holding him back. That "in spite of" description doesn't make sense to me. The guys hands are insane. Elvin Jones, maybe yeah "in spite of"...but not Keith...

[Vdrummer]

Like I said, many, many times now - I'm judging solely based what I saw on the clip. Not based on what he did in college, or on a record I haven't heard, or a show I haven't seen. I think we're at an impasse.

[Vdrummer]

I think that's true. We all have opinions, etc., and obviously he and I have different preferences and criteria. PJ, asked how I/we could make an evaluation of someone's playing/technique based on visual cues, as well as his sound, execution, finesse, and originality. Like it or not, we all do that all the time.

Peace.

[Henry II]

I love Keith's musicianship and phrasing, but, the sound on this clip is so distorted that it's really hard to appreciate.

[no_bells]

I'll have to respectfully disagree with some of the comments regarding Keith's techniques. I don't think that you are giving enough credit to Keith's intention to sound the way he wants to. In other words he's making these choices to sound this way. The only way you would be able to say that his technique is holding him back is if he has said what he is trying to achieve with his playing. If he were to say that yes he is trying to sound like a Vinnie, Weckl, Gadd clone then yeah time to re-evaluate the technique. But he's not about that, he's about serving the music with some degree of individuality. In that case that's where his technique is actually helping him, it's helping him to NOT sound like everyone else. Everyone talks about how mysterious Elvin sounds and how hard it is to sound like that. No one knows how he got those sounds. There's no book or teachers for his stuff. To me the fact that he was able to do that is priceless. I agree with GAMG about Blade and would have to add Bill Stewart, and especially Ari Hoenig and Jeff Ballard to that list. Those guys look like an absolute mess when they play. But, man those guys have sound that is all their own.

I've seen Keith w/Krantz a few times and every time I was blown away by their energy. I hear Keith as a mix of Tony, Bonham, and Jack D. I like his take on playing over the bar and beat/phrase displacement; funky but with some the nastiness of Bonham.

[Vdrummer]

You make some good points No_Bells, and I agree with many of them, but I didn't say his technique was holding him back. I said I thought he played well in spite of (not because of) his technique. By that I meant that his motions, grip, etc., seem a bit awkward, yet he still plays well in the clip. I don't think KC is trying to become a Vinnie, Lang or Virgil. If he is, he's going about it all wrong. I was responding to the people here who thought his technique was strong. His time seems strong, his groove sounds good, he's expressive, and he sounds musical. Fine - but these things are not technique. They are however "techniques" to get and keep gigs. His technique IS strong enough for him to play the way he plays.

If he wanted to play more technically demanding music ala Lang, Virgil, or Vinnie, he'd have to either use, refine or develop a different technical approach to the kit. I do not believe the current motions, grip etc., would work for very demanding technical music. But since Keith wisely isn't into all that crap, and is more about groove and feel, this whole conversation seems a bit pointless to me. Lots of people here really dig his playing and have heard and seen him in different contexts. I've only seen this clip, and my comments are solely based on that. His technique is fine for what he's doing. I just don't think that's his strongest point.